Ahmed Tarek Bahgat Abaza was born in Cairo, 1984. His studies were in Sociology and Political Science in New Zealand and his postgraduate work in Philosophy is ongoing. He has written for New Zealand publications on socio-political issues and is currently researching on the Philosophy of Biology for publication in the Rutherford Journal. He is also a composer and audio-visual performer under the name Ola-abaza. In April 2011, the Auckland Museum invited him to discuss with Dr. Nigel Parsons of Massey University the situation in the Middle East and to perform a multimedia show dedicated to the protesters. New Zealand's TVNZ invited him to comment live on Mubarak's historic last address as president. How are you feeling after watching and reading about the excessive use of force against fellow Egyptians? The first thing I felt when I saw footage of such crimes both under the rule of Mohamed Hosni Mubarak and his successor Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi is disgust and an immediate impulse to go to Egypt. During the 18 day uprising at the start of 2011 I slept less than two hours a night if at all and spent all my time following the events. To be rather clear my position is uncompromising – a single case of wrongful death, abuse, beatings, torture or other such practices should be more than enough for Egypt's de facto or de jure Head of State and his government to be held accountable. This is especially the case when the de facto Head of State is also directly in charge of the military and security. The first response by Mubarak to the rising protests against him was to change the cabinet – this was the same move taken by the rulers of Egypt during the November 2011 protests. It is a standard tactic to calm the population and appear to be compromising. Yet, those responsible for allowing the violence of the security forces remain seated in the state palaces. I cried immediately when I saw the famous footage of the young protester in Suez who the security forces murdered. Fellow protesters who remained in the line of fire carried him away in an elegant gesture of high class and moral awareness. People are asking for the end to Military rule, what are your views on this? Again, my position is uncompromising. Egypt has in fact been a military-police state since the coup targeting King Farouk I. All Heads of State since then have been military men and the military establishment has grown to huge proportions and has an unduly privileged status in society. A military must be just as accountable and transparent as any government service. To emphasise, the military is a service and its institutions servants to the citizens. People focused on the fall of Mubarak and now many chant for the fall of Tantawi – yet neither man is the right target. The right target is the entire political culture and the institutional arrangements in Egypt. Mubarak appointed all members of the SCAF (Supreme Council of the Armed Forces) and they originally promised a maximum interim period to rule for six months. They have extended this. The Emergency Laws are still in place and in use. Military trials remained routine for civilians. Laws are made by decree because the SCAF holds both executive and legislative powers. This is a dangerous despotic situation. Most importantly, the corruption amongst military leaders matches the corruption of the system they supported since 1952, as the military establishment is a fundamental part of that system. The SCAF is trying to ensure that they would be personally safe from questioning and persecution after handing over power. I see no reason why they should not at least be investigated, and investigated thoroughly, precisely as members of Mubarak's system. The Egyptian military did not want Mubarak's system to fall because they are an integral part of it. Mubarak stepped down when it was no longer viable for him to remain due to the huge numbers of protesters. It was in the interest of the generals to attempt to align themselves with the revolution and portray themselves as revolutionaries despite having served the very regime that was the object of protest. The military considers the 1952 event a revolution but it was a coup incomparable with the unprecedented popular uprisings we saw after January 25 2011. They want to preserve this appearance. The military rulers claimed that they gain their legitimacy from the revolution (as they had no constitutional legitimacy whatsoever when Mubarak entrusted them with power) yet they allowed under their rule the same brutality to be repeated. They consistently call for an end to protests that are necessary to assure that all demands of the revolution are met and which are the mark of a revolution, its means and its process. Rulers who want legitimacy from protests and revolutions must accept rather than impede the revolutionary processes. What do you feel are the main challenges facing the Egyptian uprising? The challenges are numerous and I can only mention a few. Aside from the fact that such a well-entrenched political-culture would take a lot of time to change, and aside from the failure of the authorities to protect lives and encourage the revolutionary process – divisions within Egyptian society also stand as a challenge. First, Egyptians must remember that democracy should embrace differences and that lack of agreement is normal and expected. Second, Egyptians must remember that Egypt constitutes a large and diverse society in which many groups stand in a bad position. For example, matters like the Coptic and Nubian languages and traditions which are in decline are not even on the agenda. Laws and constitutional guarantees on religious freedom are not respected – for example in the case of the Baha'i minority and in the legal recognition of only the Abrahamic religions. The situation of Egyptian Christians is particularly serious as they form a very large minority. The Egyptian Church has consistently had a patriotic internal culture. But dissatisfaction with restrictive laws, forced exposure to Islamic scripture in the Arabic school curriculum, absence of representation in high political and military positions and many other problems exist for the community. And let us not forget the violent attacks on churches. I had done a pilot survey of the Egyptian community in Christchurch, New Zealand a number of years ago. The results of the research project confirmed that the Muslim and Christian communities are sharply separated with interaction largely limited to some of the younger members of both communities. The local church openly and on record refused to support their congregation joining with the Muslim community in a united Egyptian Association of Canterbury. From this, we can see that the grievances are very strong but also that both sides misunderstand each other. Only one Muslim respondent to the survey agreed that discrimination against Christians existed at all in Egypt compared to every single Christian respondent agreeing that it exists and with some giving examples. I described it at the time as a problem of self-definition: many Muslims consider themselves the ‘tolerant-majority' and find it hard to recognize the discrimination as they do not themselves experience it. Many Christians define themselves as the ‘oppressed-minority' and find it frustrating and unacceptable that their grievances are not given due consideration. A process of critically reflecting on yourself and the groups you feel you belong to must start in order to then understand the other in front of you. Shared group self-definitions must expand and progress in line with interaction with the other. There are a lot of parties that have been formed, who has your support? None. I will vote for the best of the worst. I know whom I do not want: any party that has a religious or racial platform and any presidential candidate with a past serving in Mubarak's governments. Social welfare and economic policy are also a major consideration. There are many issues arising for Egyptians abroad trying to vote. What do you feel is the general consensus among other fellow EgyptianNew Zealanders regarding the voting system? In New Zealand, we held a march and several protests in solidarity with the revolution after January 25. Almost all members of the community that I know are strongly for their right to vote whilst living outside Egypt but it is a small community and is not representative enough. Sadly, I know enrolment has been low internationally – perhaps because of dissatisfaction and lack of trust in the process. The three months long parliamentary elections are simply strange and excessively extended. The lack of United Nations monitoring is unacceptable and would not be an infringement on Egypt's sovereignty, but rather it would be a valuable aid to Egypt's future. What is your message to fellow Egyptians? Egypt gave the West an ancient historical foundation. Its Muslim scholars translated Greek texts and had lively debates and an intellectual culture in the past that is now in decline. Scientific contribution from the Muslim world is now insignificant at best. The situation is serious and severe and what people need to do is be more mindful of their history and current geo-political position and to demand without compromise all the rights enshrined in United Nations agreements and declarations without exception. No one should tolerate a single case of death, even by mistake, at the hands of the security forces. They are employed as public servants to be responsible for their actions. Egypt is the Mother of the World (Om El-Donya) in the Arabic tongue. It is time to treat your mother well and watch for her health. BM
