CAIRO: After eight months of protests and violent repression, international pressure is building on the regime of Syrian president Bashar Al-Assad. The recent Arab League decision to suspend Syria from membership was seen as a major political blow for Assad, and was greeted with fury by Damascus. The Syrian National Council, formed in Istanbul in August by a number of active Syrian dissidents, has gained much attention in the media as one of the main representatives of the Syrian opposition. Chaired by Sorbonne political sociology professor Burhan Ghalioun, the Council's membership includes representatives of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood and the Damascus Declaration group. Bassem Ishaq (left) with William Hague in London. Representatives of the SNC have been actively seeking support from Arab countries and further afield. One of the SNC members involved in those efforts is Bassam Ishak, who spoke to Bikyamasr.com on Thursday in the Egyptian capital. Tell us about yourself and how you became involved with the Syrian National Council? I am a member of the Syrian opposition, I have been in some sort of opposition since as soon as I became politically conscious. And a lot had to do with my father who was a politician in Syria, and who was part of the establishment of the new Syria at the time after independence in 1946. He was a liberal, a democrat, and the socialists [the Baath party] took over, so I grew up listening to him and his colleagues and their arguments against the regime. And I got to see their suffering at the hands of the regime, which was totally unfair. But it wasn't until I grew up and matured politically that I became active as an opposition member. I have been in opposition for a long time, you know. I am an opposition person who is the son of an opposition person. When did you join the Syrian National Council? I joined the Syrian National Council at the time of its announcement in Istanbul. Before that I was working with the Syrian Human Rights Organization. I was its director for a period. I also tried to do my opposition work using different approaches from the typical opposition approach. I ran for parliament in Syria in 2003 and 2007, knowing that they were rigged elections, but I thought that this was an opportunity where you could do several positive things. You could expose the rigging that is carried out by the regime. Also it's an opportunity to network with people and to share your views and recruit people to your views. What are the Syrian National Council's objectives? To bring down the Syrian regime. To bring it down and to build a new democratic Syria. What are its relations with the other Syrian opposition forces at the moment? We have had talks with the National Coordination Committee. We have a good relationship, reasonably good. We still have differences, but at the end of the day we're opposition, we're Syrians and we agree on more things than we disagree on. Some people have suggested that the Syrian National Council has a stronger representation of the Islamic tendency and doesn't represent minorities very strongly. How do you respond to that? I agree with it! You now, this is not a perfect council. It's newly born. It needs time to grow and mature. It has to do it very fast, because of the pressure of what's happening on the ground. But I agree that the Council needs to improve representation among minorities. We don't want the regime to have a hold on the minorities, because actually it has hurt them more than it has benefited them over the past 48 years. So we would like the Council to do a better job of recruiting minorities into its ranks. There was a plan for the opposition to meet under the auspices of the Arab League on Tuesday… There was a recommendation by the Arab League for the opposition to meet under its auspices in the Arab League headquarters to discuss the transitional period and to agree on and offer the world a plan for the transitional period, and we are working on that currently, on that meeting. So the meeting hasn't happened yet? No, it's being planned. You've been in Cairo for some time now, what do you feel you've accomplished? It's amazing. It feels like I have got a Ph.D. in the last few months because living in Syria there were so many limitations caused by the regime and your political experience is limited really. So here we've had the freedom to interact with people, to hold a dialogue, to exercise politics in a free environment, so this has been, I think, a great gain. How do you analyse the current situation in Syria? The regime has mis-handled the revolution. It started as a conflict with young children in Deraa who had written political graffiti on the walls. It mismanaged that situation – as usual, mismanaging its relationship with its people. And instead of solving that crisis, it developed into a full-blown revolution. The Syrian people have for a long time been feeling oppressed and were very much influenced by what happened in Tunisia and especially in Egypt. Realizing that yes, they can be free, that they can achieve their hopes to live in dignity and develop a prosperous country where they can live in freedom. And the reaction of the regime to their demands was like pouring oil on fire. It actually ignited the revolution. So now we are seeing a full blown revolution at this point. We are seeing the beginning of the international community, and especially the Arab community as represented by the Arab League, coming to the help of the revolution. So we're entering a new stage at this point after eight months of the revolution. And now we're seeing the formation of the SNC, and hopefully bringing more factions of the opposition into the fold. They may not join the SNC but they will work together to achieve the goals of the revolution. On the topic of the Arab League and the international community, what steps would you like them to take now? Well, they have already taken one major step, offering their headquarters for the Syrian opposition to meet in and work out their differences and come up with a plan that will have consensus. It's helping them think about the future. And this is very important because if you don't think about the future it's very hard to change the present. So this is very helpful. Freezing Syria's membership has also delivered a message to the regime that they're not getting away with what they're doing, and that the Arabs are behind the Syrian people. This has given a moral boost to the revolutionaries. It also offers practical moves, threats of political and economic sanctions. All this sends a message to the regime that its time is up. Is there a danger though that sanctions might just cause suffering for Syrian people, if the regime is able to maintain itself in power? As happened in Iraq with Saddam Hussein? Well, it's different from what happened in Iraq with Saddam Hussein, because here we have a revolution going on with people who are willing to sacrifice even themselves and do whatever it takes to bring down the regime. The Syrian people are totally convinced that whatever price they have to pay, it's worth their freedom and their dignity. Is there still an option for dialogue with the regime? Not at all. The regime gave up all these options when it fired the first bullet at the first Syrian citizen. Previously the SNC spoke about seeking international protection for civilians. What would that involve? It would involve the UN really… We need monitors on the ground to be present at demonstrations, in areas where there has been violence against peaceful demonstrators. We believe that if peaceful demonstrations are [allowed to take place] freely and with no threats of violence, they will grow and will bring the regime down. And if the regime is unwilling to accept any observers? Then there are options. But we are determined to bring the regime down, one way or another. Walid Al-Bunni at your press conference last Sunday talked about a no-fly zone. That's a possibility, a no-fly zone, a safe area, these possibilities are all there. Can you call for those possibilities, looking at the Libyan experience, without the fear that it will end up in a full-scale foreign military intervention? I don't think this is similar to the Libyan situation. There you had a large area with a small population of 5 to 6 million. Here you have a smaller area with a population of 23 million that has successfully organized ongoing demonstrations that the regime, with all of its power, has not been able to stop. So I think eventually the Syrian people will bring down the regime. We're now seeing the splits in the army taking place in larger numbers. We're seeing demonstrations in many more locations than in the past, when the revolution started. With a no-fly zone to protect those military personnel who are splitting from the army, with a safe area, I think we will see more splits and I think then the regime will find itself with nobody in the army. The latest news suggests there are more military actions by deserters from the army. Do you see the revolution becoming militarized? Well, in certain aspects. We're not encouraging that in the SNC. We made a statement asking the people not to fall into the regime's trap and use violence unnecessarily. There are members of the Syrian Free Army who are armed and are protecting the demonstrators. As self-defence. That is going on and the Syrian people, who are having to pay for their courage to demonstrate, are making the decision on that. We just don't want them to fall into the trap of militarizing the conflict. The regime would like that because it thinks it would have the upper hand in a military confrontation. Does the SNC have relations with the Free Syrian Army? There have been contacts. We're trying to develop a relationship. It's in the works. Do you have any comments on the communiqué which was apparently released two days ago by the FSA? No. No comments. Do you think there's still genuine support for the regime among at least part of the Syrian population, given that on the internet there are lots of people saying they support it? There have been large successful demonstrations of support. We know that to a very large extent these are organized, but they suggest there is also some remaining genuine support. There's a part of the population that still supports Bashar al-Assad. The regime always enjoyed a small amount of support in the country. From segments, from groups, for really not serious political reasons – either out of sectarianism, or out of fear, or merchants who support the regime for the sake of their personal economic gain. But the majority of the people who participated in these demonstrations are government employees who are threatened with losing their jobs if they don't participate, and we don't blame them. But these demonstrations aren't going to sway the opinion of anyone, the regime is wasting their time and the time of these people. And I am sure that once the revolution wins, inshallah soon, most of these people will demonstrate in support of the new free Syria. Including the Alawi community? Yes! Because if we are successful in establishing a society, a political system that is based on citizenship, then the minorities will be able to enjoy their rights without having to enforce them. [They will enjoy them] through a new social contract that will be protected by the law. It's better to be protected by the law than to be protected by arms and by oppression. Is the SNC a government in waiting? No, no, no. Not at all. The SNC is a political representative for the revolution and seeks to support the revolution and help it in any [possible] way to achieve its goals and succeed. Can you give us a broad idea of your vision for Syria after the revolution? Syria after the revolution will have a transitional period. The SNC along with other bodies from the opposition will work out the detail, but I can give you my own ideas. They will probably form a committee to draft a new constitution. They may use an older version from when Syria was democratic, like the 1951 constitution, until they draft a new one that will call for Syria to have a democratic, pluralistic, civil political system. In due time it will call for parliamentary and presidential elections. They will decide whether the president is to be chosen through the parliament or by direct elections. There'll be a new law for forming political parties, a new law for elections, a law to guarantee freedom of speech, free media, forming societies and developing civil society. This is my vision, this is my hope, and this is what I believe is the vision of the Syrian people, who have called from day one for freedom and dignity. This is how I believe it's translated. Do you think Syria's regional stance and its regional alliances will change after the revolution? Yes, because this regime tries to support itself and maintain itself by its regional stance which has come at the expense of the Syrian people's interests. But when we have a new political system that guarantees a government that is representative of the people, then it will work in international relations, whether in the region or internationally, according to the interests of the people, not of the few who run an oppressive regime. So will its stance in relation to, for example, the Palestinian issue change? There's sentimental support in Syria for the suffering of the Palestinian people, so I think this will continue. It's not so much a political issue as a popular issue. We sympathize with the Palestinians. The regime even claims to sympathize with the Palestinians, because it knows this is popular. No Arab government dares to say anything different from that in public. Are you afraid the new government might be politically indebted to the states that have supported it during the course of the revolution? No, I don't think this is conditional assistance. Of course these political actors may see a political interest in supporting the revolution, and this political interest will be accomplished by overthrowing the regime, but that doesn't mean that there are conditions on their support. I haven't heard it from any of them. I've met very high-level officials and I never heard any such thing from any of them. BM
