During her visit to Kampala to attend Independence Day celebrations, Marwa Tawfik interviewed Ugandan President Yoweri in the Presidential Palace at Entebbe about his plans for the future of his country. The interview was supposed to take 10 minutes but it lasted for two hours. was very humble and has a good sense of humour. He speaks openly about all the issues even the sensitive ones First, I would like to congratulate you on your national day, celebrating 48 years of independence. You have mentioned that Uganda is now able to depend upon itself and its resources to fund its own projects, how did you manage to achieve this? Africa is a very rich continent but the problem is not wealth. It is the shifting from traditional Africa to industrial Africa. So, it is not a question of resources, for instance, one of the mistakes made by our leaders after independence was to interfere with the private sector. This is main difference between Africa and Asia. Asia is much poorer than Uganda in terms of natural resources. The government now is taxing business but not interfering in it. There are some policy mistakes by the World Bank which have to do with infrastructure. If you look at kilowatt hours per capita, you will find it really scandalous. In the United States it is 14,000 while here in Africa it is 12. Without electricity we can't develop. Was oil discovered recently in Uganda? Yes, but oil is not important as agriculture or industry. How do you see the opportunities of bilateral cooperation with Egypt? We have very many opportunities. If we could work with Egypt on the question of processing we could increase our cooperation greatly. What about the cooperation within the Nile Basin countries especially after Entebbe's agreement that was signed by five countries including Uganda? There is total confusion on that issue. In Egypt, they think that the countries here in the tropics want to keep the water, that Egyptians won't have water. This is absolutely rubbish. The threat to the Nile is not a political issue but an environmental one. If we don't have electricity the peasants cut the trees for firewood and by doing that they are causing environmental damage. The rain here is 40 per cent from local moisture. Now, when you cut the trees you interfere with this 40 per cent and once this happens I am not even sure that the other 60 per cent will be available because of the change in weather patterns. The second danger is primitive agriculture and as result of that instead of getting 10 tons from one hectare the farmer gets half a ton of produce. So, he wants more land to expand to compensate. So, the answer is electricity, industrialisation and modernising agriculture. So, this is the issue, not the agreement. Egypt said that it doesn't mind at all to cooperate with the Nile Basin countries to increase electricity and irrigation systems but not to affect its amount of water. The only issue then is irrigation. So, what Egypt is saying, then, is that there should be no irrigation in the tropics! We need to know your own point of view. We have heard many calls for holding a summit on the presidential level to find amicable solution for this subject. I supported that -- it was my idea, but the issue is that electricity isn't the problem. It is good for Egypt and the tropics. Irrigation is necessary, however. Egyptians said, "You have rain." So, we ask them, "What is rain? Rain is water in the sky but we don't cultivate in the sky, we cultivate in the ground. Rain is unreliable. So, when it rains the water flows, now if we don't manage it, it will go. So, we will have rains but no crops because it sometimes rains and sometimes not." Then, the Egyptians say "For Egypt the Nile is a matter of survival, while, for us it's optional." That is not true. As we have seen, people are dying in Ethiopia. So, the issue of water is a survival issue for Egypt, and so it is for the tropics. And with improving technology we can use a smaller amount of water for irrigation. We should not create too much excitement because there are solutions. There is the Congo River as well as the Nile. The ocean does not need this water. Are there any hopes to reach agreement? Of course, there are no differences. The differences are created by some bureaucrats and are not serious. That's why I am the one who suggested meeting on a leadership level to give political guidance and then, the bureaucrats can go and work out the details. Is there any fixed time for that summit? Yes, actually we wanted to call the meeting in October and I think we should call for it again soon. Sudan is accusing Uganda of taking a hostile attitude towards it and encouraging separation of southern Sudan. Sudan is an African-Arab country but the mistake of the Sudanese leaders was to run the country under Sharia law. I was involved in mediating. I was pleading on behalf of those who are not Arab and not Muslims but they insist on Sharia. In the negotiations of the declaration of principles we develop two things: either Sudan becomes a secular state or the south should have the right for self determination. Khartoum said let the south take self determination. We cannot accept secularism. So, that is my evaluation of the problem. A lot of people died as a result of that conflict. When this war started I was in grade three in primary school, 10 years old, so how can they say I am the one who encouraged it? Khartoum said you are training elements from the justice and equality movement of Darfur? This is not true. I have no relation to Darfur, but to the southern Sudanese because they are the same as our tribes. What is your attitude concerning Al-Bashir's International criminal Court (ICC) indictment? Al-Bashir had a wrong policy towards southern Sudan for many years. When our government came to power in 1986, they started fighting us and supported terrorist groups against us. Their miscalculation was that they thought that maybe in the future, we might sympathise with the black people of southern Sudan so they should get rid of us. They are the ones who started to fight us. As for Al-Bashir going to the ICC our view is that African leaders should be accountable because even if there is war you should conduct it as a war, but to attack the civilian population, women and children, and then expect Africa to keep quiet about that -- I think it is a big mistake. Why do we attack Israel and not African countries violating international law? We have fought many wars here but we always fight fairly. Why rape women? I would kill somebody if he raped my daughter. I would not wait for the ICC. I will kill him myself. As president I am responsible for what my troops do. Even if the African Union supports him? I kept quiet but I gave my opinion. It is on record. You are the one who asked me. You announced that you are willing to send more troops to Somalia. Don't you fear the repercussion of such step, that it exposes you to terrorism? We cannot be intimidated by those terrorists whoever they are. The donors said after the amendment of the constitution that they were disappointed in the democratic regime in Uganda, that it could be a better model for eastern Africa. They got mixed up between running a country and building a nation. In Africa we are building nations and we cannot put a time limit on this main priority. Africa is not a theatre, we are not acting, it is a struggle. So, as long as I am elected, I stay. If they don't elect me, I will go. When will you visit Egypt? After the elections. I heard that cows are very dear to your heart. What is their story? I have seen those cows on the tombs of the kings of the ancient Egyptians. They are very special with long horns, no longer found in Egypt but those kind of cows are here. They are ancient. Those cows are like a part of our family, a symbol of wealth.
