Egyptian Minister of International Cooperation Fayza Abul-Naga speaks of the UN's role in Egypt's development in an interview with Ahmed Abushadi and Seheir Kansouh-Habib Responding to questions for nearly 90 minutes, despite a busy schedule, Egypt's minister of international cooperation, Fayza Abul-Naga, was upbeat about the United Nations at 60, her own association with the world organisation, her present portfolio and her role in managing development assistance flows to Egypt when she met Beyond in the offices of her ministry in downtown Cairo. Perhaps we could start with the good news of Mohamed El-Baradei having been awarded the 2005 Nobel Peace Prize. In his words, "the prize recognises the role of multilateralism in resolving all the challenges that we are facing today." What is your comment? Not only was it good news, it was excellent news. It was excellent news for the world and wonderful news for Egypt and its people. Mohamed El-Baradei is a prominent Egyptian -- the fourth to win a Nobel Prize either for peace or physics or literature. First, it went to President Anwar El-Sadat, then Naguib Mahfouz, Ahmed Zoweil and now El-Baradei, together with the IAEA. Awarding the IAEA and El-Baradei the Nobel Peace Prize is a strong and timely message in favour of multilateralism, preserving peace, securing the world, and supporting efforts aimed at banning weapons of mass destruction. It is a message to the whole world that multilateralism should and will survive. This was what I said when I called him, and again in a letter congratulating him. Some regard the award to El-Baradei as a personal vindication. His re-nomination for the top IAEA post was challenged only weeks ago. I would rather call it a crowning of his efforts throughout the long years of his service. His is a very complex and complicated job. El-Baradei has steered the IAEA with wisdom and professionalism, always insisting on doing his job right, no matter what. It is also a source of pride and satisfaction for all those who believe in a strong United Nations as a forum for the democratisation of international relations and for spreading development and peace throughout the world; the UN as a podium for the poor to express their concerns and for their voices to be heard. This is what the UN is all about. As a matter of fact, the Charter of the UN starts with us, the people of the world. It is for the people and with the people. This is what the UN and multilateralism stand for. Yet in its most recent reform effort, the UN settled for a minimalist approach, foregoing more ambitious plans. I would not call it minimalist. The UN stands for some very deeply rooted principles enshrined in its Charter, and also in the principles and rules of international law and all the international norms that have been nurtured throughout the last 60 years. Of course, there were lots of changes in the world, in international relations, in the balance of power. All of this, of course, impacted on the UN and its role. So, I would not consider it a minimalist approach, but an approach that preserves the organisation, its credibility; that would actually make it possible for the UN system as a whole to survive. I know it is difficult, but I think that members of the UN believe that there is a new beginning, an awakening in the international community to join hands in order to preserve this institution. Reform it, yes, because we cannot expect that an organisation established 60 years ago could be run according to the same rules that were right then. The most important thing is that the reform process should be comprehensive. It should set the rules right, keep the interests of the international community as its top priority, particularly the proper representation of countries within that organisation so that it can survive. I am not talking just about the UN; I am talking about the multilateral system as a whole. Would you share with us the story of your own association with the UN? My story with the UN is the story of my professional career. I started as a very a young diplomat, joining the Foreign Service in 1975. My whole career was in multilateral diplomacy, both in Egypt and at the UN. Even before I joined the Mission of Egypt in New York (1979-1984), my very first assignment abroad was to attend a UN conference in the area of conventional disarmament. I started up with international security when I joined the Department of International Organisations at the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. When I returned from New York, I joined the cabinet of then Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Boutros Boutros-Ghali with responsibility for the section dealing with the UN and multilateral organisations. I spent another four and a half years in Geneva when I joined the University of Geneva for my Masters degree and started working for my PhD. When Boutros-Ghali was elected UN secretary general at the end of 1991, he asked me to join him as special advisor for 5 years, until the end of his tenure in December 1996. Back in Cairo, I worked on Africa within relevant multilateral and regional organisations. I was then appointed by President Hosni Mubarak, upon the recommendation of then Foreign Minister Amr Moussa, as ambassador and permanent representative of Egypt to the UN European headquarters in Geneva. I had the honour to represent Egypt in more than 43 international organisations, and also to serve as Egypt's permanent representative to the World Trade Organisation. In Geneva, there are other important organisations -- both within the UN and outside the UN system -- whose work is very much related to the UN work. Organisations such as the International Red Cross, the International Committee of Churches, the World Immigration Organisation, and many others. I was in Geneva for three years until I was appointed first as minister of state for foreign affairs (2001-2004) and since July 2004, as minister of international cooperation. Of course, I work closely with UN representatives in Egypt, including coordination with the Development Assistance Group (DAG). We are responsible for coordinating all official development assistance that Egypt receives including coordination among other ministries and agencies in Egypt, as well as internationally between Egypt and our partners for development represented in the DAG here in Cairo. Could you outline for us the changes you introduced both as minister of foreign affairs with responsibility for the UN and as minister of international cooperation in charge of bilateral and multilateral assistance? You know I am a UN believer. I believe that this organisation is central to the life of people around the world. In Egypt, carrying the UN banner is very respectable; people believe in the UN role, especially in promoting both development and financing for development. I am a believer in perseverance and in the ability of developing countries to join hands and continue to press their concerns and stress the responsibility of the rich and the industrialised world. I remember one of the very first conferences I attended, almost 30 years ago, where the UN adopted a resolution requesting industrialised and other rich countries to set aside 0.7 per cent of their GDP for development assistance. Unfortunately 30 years later, today there are only a few countries -- actually no more than three or four -- that have met that target. During the last UN summit, where there were many disagreements and differences in concepts and approaches on how to address financing for development. It was unfortunate, yet incentive for all of us to continue to work together. One of the first things I adopted as a motto, and as a principle of work, at this ministry was that we will not talk about "donations" or "donors". I struck the word "donors" from the dictionary of this ministry. I have told our partners that we are talking about partnership, because this is what it should be and this is what it is. Development assistance is not charity. It is not a donation given by the rich to the poor. We are partners -- partners for development. I was very pleased to see that our partners are presently using the same terminology. They actually describe themselves as partners. Egypt is a country that benefits from development assistance, both from bilateral partners, international financial institutions such as the World Bank Group, the IMF, the European Investment Bank, and other international and regional financial institutions. Of course, each partner has to assume responsibility. For us in Egypt, we have to do our homework right, to maximise the benefits of development assistance. We have come a long way in the last four years. We have established a much better level of coordination nationally. Coordination is difficult to achieve; to get people talking to each other, sharing information among themselves -- what I call completing the circle of information. There is no doubt that the level of coordination nationally today is far better compared to what it used to be 5, 6 or 7 years ago. Yet there are important tasks to address. We have been promoting harmonisation and alignment of aid and development assistance; efforts to avoid any wasting of time and energy, and to overcome bureaucracy within the institutions of our partners themselves. Bureaucracy does not exist only in the developing world; it exists also in the developed and industrialised world. We have an open dialogue with our partners so that problems we face both nationally and within their institutions can be effectively tackled. Looking ahead, what will you focus on in the future ? We have 10-year programmes with some of our partners. We have programmes with other financial institutions such as the World Bank. We have 3-year programmes with the EU. So, it varies from one partner to another. But let me tell you that the point of departure is Egypt's Five-year Development Plan. The baseline for our priorities is the government's programme that the prime minister introduced to parliament last December with its 10 components. Of course, we have the programme introduced by President Mubarak during the recent presidential elections. Right now our top priority is investment for employment. The most challenging issue that the government of Egypt is facing is unemployment -- particularly how to generate jobs for young men and women who graduate from universities and technical schools. We have about 650,000 young graduates every year, two-thirds from technical schools and one third from universities. Egypt has adopted a liberal economy, free trade, and market-oriented policies. The government can no longer hire all those graduates. We are trying to provide an environment that is conducive for the private sector to be able to generate jobs to absorb them. The government's role has become that of a regulator that would set in place the policies and environment needed to attract local and foreign direct investments that would generate jobs. Encouraging small and medium enterprises is also a vehicle for more job creation. At the Ministry of International Cooperation, our priorities encompass all of that, in addition to human resource development. The problem is not lack of jobs per se, but in many cases having the right people or the right skilled labour for specific jobs. We need to do more on the education process. Right now, the government is reforming basic and higher education. We need to look at early childhood, 3 and 4-year old children. Through international cooperation, we need to provide a considerable amount of financing from our partners for early childhood programmes. For skill development, there is a programme with the EU and the World Bank to improve skills locally and internationally. The local market is now open for foreign labour that would come and compete with Egyptians at home. So, competitiveness is extremely important and the objective here is not only providing standard education, but the education, the vocational training that would enable Egyptians to be highly competitive everywhere. This is quite ambitious. As I said at the beginning, I do not believe in a minimalist approach. I know it is ambitious and takes time, but it is very important to start and this is what we are doing. It is important for the government to provide the necessary framework through legislative, economic and structural reforms. The government has gone a long way and will continue with these reforms in the next two years. As a founding member of the UN, Egypt has contributed actively to the creation of almost all UN agencies. Nonetheless, the number of Egyptians working at the UN and its agencies has been shrinking over the past 20 years. Is that something we should be concerned about? Having worked within the UN, I have noticed a decreasing number of Egyptians working for international organisations. There is recognition of that. It is very important to encourage Egyptians to compete for middle to higher management positions within the UN and international financial institutions. There is recognition in the government, and the minister of foreign affairs is very much aware of the fact that more and more Egyptians should be prepared to occupy those posts. However, we had a secretary-general of the UN in Boutros Boutros-Ghali. We have Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the IAEA. We have Mervat Tallawy, head of the Economic and Social Committee for Western Asia. Another Egyptian, Hazem Beblawi, preceded her. Mustafa Tolba was founding head of UN Environment Programme, and we have had many other Egyptians in high positions. In addition, we have many special representatives of the secretary general. What role do NGOs have in development assistance to Egypt? Egypt is very much promoting the role of NGOs. For the first time in this ministry, we have set up a new central department that has responsibility for NGOs and the private sector. With all our partners in every programme of assistance, there is a window for the private sector, civil society, and NGOs. We have issued for the first time a guide for the private sector. One of the major difficulties the sector faces is that useful information is not always available. For instance, access to finance, how they get to it, and what steps need to be followed. This was clearly needed. I understood this from my very first encounter with private investors. The private sector is made up of different segments: tycoons, large, medium and small-sized enterprises, and so on. Who do you seek to help most? It depends on the type of assistance. In the private sector, richer segments can get their share. But, as a matter of fact, most of our assistance here goes to medium and small enterprises. Tycoons may sometimes need a recommendation to financial institutions and there is a procedure for that. For instance, when a company is looking for a loan from an international or a regional bank, there is a process where the government issues a letter of no objection for the company or enterprise concerned. Medium and smaller investors need technical assistance as much as finance, for example, in preparing feasibility studies. Most of the problems we face relate to feasibility studies that were not prepared properly. That is why technical assistance is very important. A new department we created two years ago that is responsible for providing assistance to small and medium-sized enterprises. Foreign financing of NGOs has always been a subject of controversy. What is the current policy? Whenever we talk about NGOs and civil society there is a tendency -- especially from outside Egypt -- to imply that civil society is a novelty in Egypt. This is absolutely untrue. Institutions like Cairo University and then Fouad University were built entirely by civil society from private financing. The concept of social solidarity is very entrenched in Egypt. For more than 200 years civil society supported activities in the medical and health fields, in education, in social welfare, and other areas. Since development assistance to Egypt started some 30 years ago, there has been a significant component of assistance directed to NGOs and to civil society. For the last 20 years, we have been providing financing from development assistance to more than 500 NGOs in the area of socio-economic activities. We are also financing a growing number of NGOs in the areas of civil rights, human rights, democracy, governance, justice, administration and legal services for women, such as the National Council For Women, the National Council for Motherhood and Childhood, and the National Council for Human Rights. All this is ongoing, and is a government concern as much as one of development assistance. In Upper Egypt, where I recently visited several governorates, the work done by NGOs is absolutely exemplary. In fact, we go more and more to NGOs because we believe that they are able to get to the grassroots, especially in the poorer layers of society, much better than the government can. We work hand-in-hand with the Ministry of Social Affairs, which is responsible, of course, for NGOs, according to Law 84 of 2002. We are doing our best to get more finance and more sources of finance for NGOs and for civil society, especially in the area of socio-economic activities and also, of course, for political and governance related issues. In the medium term, what are your personal priorities? There is a project that is now a priority for me and that is going to be my focus in the next year or so -- the development of the northwestern coast of Egypt and the de- mining of that area. On the northwestern coast, and for up to 280 kilometres deep in the Western desert, there are about 18 million mines planted since the Al-Alamein battle of World War II. I am honoured to be chair of the national committee for de-mining and developing the northwestern coast. We have worked very hard with all the ministries concerned and with the governorates of Alexandria and Matrouh in order to develop a detailed plan for this, one of the richest parts of Egypt in terms of natural minerals, water resources, agriculture and tourism. This area used to be the grain basket of the Roman Empire, and we are looking forward to restoring this image. This is done in cooperation with our partners in the UN. We have established a trust fund for voluntary contributions within the UNDP. In view of the large financing required, we have linked the de-mining approach to the development and investment in the area. I believe this will be a first class national project for Egypt, and it is being presented to cabinet for adoption at its next meeting. I wanted to conclude on that very important note.
