Amid a severe state of McCarthyism dominating the cultural scene in Egypt, with novelists, poets and researchers being imprisoned, Egypt's most prominent poet Ahmed Shahawy's latest contributions "Deputies of God" has come to light. Shahawy- who has been wandering round the globe, searching for the unknown-sails through different eras of the Islamic history, trying to re-establish the Muslim self that has been tarnished for centuries by the fallacy of some clergymen who see themselves as deputies of the God, taking the people to paradise. Al-Bawaba EG has met the outstanding poet in a downtown Cairo café. What were your motives to temporarily dessert poetic arena for the sake of a research book like "Deputies of God"? Those who follow my creative career will expect me to produce such a book. A lot of friends have warned me against going to this area, trying to persuade me to stay in the area of poetry. It has been inherited over the years that poets wait for inspiration to write without dealing with heritage or religion. I always say that poetry is closely connected with philosophy and religion, not from the standpoint of the Sharia, but from the standpoint of knowledge. Since my "Commandments on Women's Love" was issued in 2003, I have been under systematic campaigns of insulting, cursing and accusations of apostasy. These campaigns were repeated in 2006. I see the heritage as my feet with which I walk, and when you know your heritage, even if you oppose it, you know yourself well. It was necessary for me as a poet to wade in. Poets, especially in the West, have contributions on philosophy, criticism and various branches of knowledge. They write to shake people's tree of false certainty, to shake in mind the defects of heritage. I believe that there is no infallibility for a book or an Islamic jurist or an imam. In fact, our history is full of distortions, and the role of clergymen is to justify for these distortions, while the role of researchers and intellectuals is to free minds of such myths and provide people with facts. Over the Islamic history, no one has ever mentioned that the Islamic Caliph Abu Bakr Al-Sedeek, for example, was killed with poison. They are hiding the facts all the time. You'll find that the book is based on the sayings of Arab and Muslim scholars and philosophers, ruling out contributions by orientalists, although many of them have served Islam more than Arab scholars do. Jacques Burke, for example, served Islam through his translations and his work. Since 2003, I decided to know more about Al-Azhar institution under its teachings I was raised and the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups that accused me of blasphemy. Would you elaborate on fabricated Hadiths in Islamic heritage books? The Umayyad and Abbasid reigns witnessed a huge number of hadith fabricated for the predominance of a particular state over another or a religious doctrine over another. Egyptians also were proficient in creating hadiths. Traders used to fabricate hadiths that linguistically cope with those of prophet Muhammed for their commodities to boom. There are tens of thousands of fabricated hadiths. I recommend you to read the "Three Volumes of Fabricated Hadiths". We as intellectuals, shoulder the responsibility of purifying the heritage books of such lies. What are the dangers of the sectarian conflict in the Islamic world? I focused in my book on the early years of Islam, including the reign of the Righteous Caliphs. There were human errors that have been remedied. You know that the pre-Islamic era was dominated by racism and tribalism, but the logic of tribe was not limited to that era but continued in our Islamic world to achieve the predominance of a certain doctrine over another. Sectarianism is the real killer of the concept of modern state. You'll find countries that built its political system on the principle of quotas in line with their religious doctrines. Sunnis and Shiites are divided into several groups and sects. Quotas never build a modern state. Don't you think that your views on the colonial Powers' plans to devote sectarianism in the Muslim world have brought an intellectual like Ahmed Shahawy to the trap of "conspiracy theory"? No. I previously mentioned this view in an interview with one of the major Canadian newspapers, and now I'm developing it with you. Let's ask why the West invented, shaped and nurtured political Islam groups in all its forms, marginalizing Sufis who have real divine light. Look around, you'll find even publishing houses here in Egypt do not publish books for Sufis, while frequently publishes books of Wahhabism. Contributions of Jihadist Salafists are sold at few pounds. Publishing houses are continuously funded to keep pumping Wahhabi ideas in people's minds. I am a man coming from a village in Damietta, northeastern Egypt where shrines of righteous guardians of God were demolished. All this was done to achieve superiority for Wahhabism over Sufism to serve the goals and ambitions of other powers in the region. Who benefit from keeping the conflict between intellectuals and those who monopolize religion going on? The State in Egypt has always exercised repression against creators in the sense that it calls for the emancipation of the mind while simultaneously suppresses creators. Imagine that the state opens the doors for assassins to write and vent their venom in people's minds under the pretext that they repented and made revisions. One of those killers writes for more than five newspapers. Which reviews? I met one of them at a seminar. He always eschewed a definite answer on whether he recognizes the value of Naguib Mahfouz as a novelist. These are people who lost their souls, and when the soul is lost, the reason irreversibly goes. We will need for so many years to fight this evil left by the Egyptian state, whose intellectuals have fought for the true understanding of Islam to grow and thrive. The real war is for the true Islam, not for terms such as the "moderate Islam". Such terms don't exist in Islam. Most philosophers and Islamic jurists, over the Islamic history, were killed at the behest of other scholars. Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, for example, instigated the murder of some scholars. Islamic history is full of jurists who remained hunted for years because of fatwas that sent them to apostasy and recommended their murder. The conflict here is based on desires for wealth and power, not for the true Islam. A number of novelists, poets, intellectuals and researchers have been imprisoned and even assassinated? Don't you fear the same fate? Have you received threats of murder? I have been repeatedly insulted, cursed and threatened, but this will never thwart me from my sacred mission to enlighten people. I never care for such obscenities or threats. Do you expect a new "fatwa" accusing you of blasphemy? I have always been eager to find those who could guide me and others to the true understanding of Islam. Alas, there are religious scholars who ignore or twist the necks of religious texts in order to achieve special interests. An Islamic Research Complex member signed a fatwa that sent me to apostasy without even reading my books. Later on, I said Egypt is the only country that witnesses such catastrophes. One of the said "Yes, we are the deputies of God," without mentioning my name as he knows I always lean upon facts reached through thorough research, and they also know I am a fierce fighter. I have encountered a lot of Al-Azhar scholars and professors of rhetoric at religious colleges, showing them clear sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. They told me they know these texts, but they prefer to keep them blurred. There are many religious scholars who contempt Islam with their unlimited insults, curses and accusations against whoever think in a different way. I have tried to enlighten a path of truth for others. When "Deputies of God" is translated into English by "Chicago Press" Publishing House, I will be falsely accused of mangling Islam. But I relied only on facts and findings through diligent and thorough research. My life as a poet is mainly based on non-stop research. Is there a possibility to review our history and admit sins to reach a real renewal of Islamic discourse? I think this will not happen. The state does not have the real intention to do that. It still practices repression against those who try to emancipate the mind, while Wahhabi currents wholly control Al-Azhar. We do not review or change or seek to renew, or go toward true knowledge, or purify Al-Azhar from myths and lies coming through professors who traveled to work in Saudi universities, and returned with a new ideology, opposing what they studied and believed. This goes against traditions of Al-Azhar that oppose sectarianism, and back plurality, diversity and diligence. Al-Azhar historic icon Imam Mohammed Abdu, who died in 1905, said he exerted strenuous efforts to revolt against the "myths of Al-Azhar", regarding it as a mental hospital. Islamic history is full of philosophers and scholars who have tried to purify people's minds of superstitions, but they only found murder, arson and cursing, as happened with the Sufi scholar al-Hallaj, for example. It has been circulated on social media there were plans for your book to be taught at high schools and universities? Actually, they are not real plans, but just proposals by some intellectuals. In your opinion, what are the mechanisms essential to keep religion away from ideology? If I were in charge, I would order millions of books by revolutionary imams like Mohammed Abdu and Abdel-Halim Mahmoud and others to be reprinted and sold to the public at low prices. Believe me, people are willing to learn. The first edition of the "Deputies of God" ran out in a few days, and the second edition will appear within days. This shows the people's willingness to know, but they need real guides.
