By Safa Haeri Jalal Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), one of the major Iraqi Kurdish organisations active in the north of the country, was in Ankara a few weeks ago for a "summit" meeting with his arch-enemy and political rival, Masoud Barzani, head of the Democratic Party of Kurdistan (KDP). The meeting between the two Iraqi Kurdish leaders took place shortly after the signing in Washington of another "historic" agreement, which ended two years of fighting between the PUK and the KDP, the former of which is supported by Tehran, while the latter is backed by both Baghdad and Ankara. The US-brokered agreement has angered Turkey, which was not invited to the Washington talks. The recent meeting in Ankara was aimed at appeasing Turkey, with both Barzani and Talabani conducting extensive talks with Turkish officials, briefing them on their new accord. According to informed sources close to the two Kurdish leaders, Turkey has urged them to "take all necessary measures" to close down military camps run by the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) led by Abdullah Ocalan, which are reportedly present in areas controlled by Talabani's supporters. Talabani told the Weekly that although he understands the Turkish stand, he can only condemn the presence of Turkish forces on Iraqi territory. The following are excerpts from the interview: You and Barzani are in Ankara to talk to the Turks about the situation in Iraqi Kurdistan, what are you telling them? The Iraqi Kurds have always been in a different position to our Iranian and Turkish brothers. While the Iranian Kurds have lived in Iran for thousands of years and the Turkish Kurds have lived in Turkey for hundreds of years, we became part of Iraq after World War I. Four years after Iraq was created, the League of Nations decided that under certain conditions, Kurdistan should become part of Iraq. Autonomy, a separate Kurdish language and culture etc are part of the Iraqi constitution. As far as the PKK is concerned, if they want to continue their armed struggle, they have to do it on Turkish territory and not from Iraq. What they are doing is against international law. No one would accept an armed force using another country's territory to attack the country it belongs to. The Palestinians, for example, are not allowed to carry out operations against Israel from Egypt, Syria or Jordan. The same should apply to the PKK. Iraq cannot be allowed to become a base for operations against Turkey. As a result, Turkey attacks us and maybe one day it will occupy us. The PKK must understand this. Our capabilities are limited and we are not in a position to give them any military assistance. We also tried to explain to Turkish officials that we are not fighting for a separate state. On the contrary, we are dedicated to the preservation of Iraq's national unity and integrity. We want to remain in the framework of Iraq and fight for our declared and stated causes from within that framework. Unlike some of the other forces, such as the Islamic ones, which want Iraq to become part of a greater Muslim nation, or Arab nationalists, who want to see Iraq as part of a greater Arab nation, we are not looking to split Iraq up. On the day you signed the agreement with Barzani in Washington, Turkey attacked Iraqi Kurdistan. Why do you think that was? Turkey says it is not attacking Kurdistan, only PKK bases. The only solution is for the PKK to close down all of the military bases in our region so that Turkey will not have an excuse to enter our country. But as long as the PKK attacks Turkey from Iraqi Kurdistan, Ankara will strike back. The PKK must end its military presence and respect our people because what we have achieved here is to the benefit of all the Kurds, including the PKK. All Kurds must strive to make this new democratic experiment become a reality. The US is once again threatening to punish Baghdad. How do you evaluate the situation? The future of Iraq will be decided from within. Everything that is going on outside, such as talk of psychological warfare and the propaganda war against Saddam, is not serious. The serious work is carried out in Iraq, by the real, active opposition. American money cannot change the regime. In my opinion, what the Americans are doing is for reasons of propaganda, not for real change. We will not take part in those political games. Many people, including your closest friends, find it hard to understand what your differences with Barzani are. Can you explain this? It's finished. Let's not talk about it... But people would like to understand... This is something we cannot address now. It would be bad for the future of the Kurds. So, let's talk about our agreements instead. Okay, what do the accords entail? We agreed on the formation of a joint government, future elections, the sharing of revenues, the collection of custom revenues by and for the government, normalisation of the situation in Erbil, Suleimanyeh and Dhok and active cooperation for ensuring a democratic future for Iraq. But this is not the first time you have made agreements with the KDP Yes, but there has never been anything like this before. First, this is the first time a document carries both our signatures. Second, this is the first time we have reached agreements after so many international efforts in London and Washington and after talks held here in Ankara. Finally, we have come to the conclusion that peace and cooperation between all of the Kurdish parties is the only solution. There is also a lot of pressure on us from the Iraqi Kurdish population, which is tired of the fighting and wants peace, security and prosperity. Do you think this agreement might provoke Saddam Hussein to attack Kurdistan again, as he did two years ago? First of all, when Saddam attacked two years ago, he was invited by one of the Kurdish organisations (the KDP). This time, we are all united. On the other hand, the Americans have assured us that they are more determined than ever to punish Saddam if he attacks us. What is the economic situation of the region now? It's much better than it used to be. We are almost self-sufficient, people have enough to eat and prices are falling. Non-governmental organisations helped enormously in the reconstruction of the villages and roads that were destroyed. This has boosted the economy of Kurdistan. We now have enough electricity and medicine and our hospitals are in good condition. Furthermore, agricultural production is on the increase and we have even started exporting poultry and meat to Iran and Iraq.
