Hedy Epstein, an 85-year-old Holocaust survivor, is an outspoken critic of the Israeli government and military. As the daughter of anti-Zionist Jewish parents in Germany, she is no stranger to being an outsider. Although she has been called a "traitor" and a "self-hating Jew" by members of the US Jewish community, she continues to speak up about inhumane Israeli policies against the Palestinians. Since 2003, she has visited the Palestinian West Bank six times. She has attempted to visit Gaza twice, but was unable to make the trip for health reasons the first time and was assaulted in her hometown of St. Louis the day before her second attempt. Later this month, she plans to attend the Gaza Freedom March on the one-year anniversary of Israel's three-week assault on Gaza -- "Operation Cast Lead" -- in which more than 1400 Palestinians were killed, the majority of them civilians. From her home in the US, Epstein spoke with Al-Masry Al-Youm about Israel, Palestine and the prospects for a fair settlement of the 60-year-old conflict. Al-Masry Al-Youm: How did you become such a vocal critic of Israel? Hedy Epstein: In 1982, I had what you might call a wake-up call when I learned about the massacres in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila [in Lebanon]. I needed to find out what it was all about, who was responsible and who was adversely affected by it--and what happened between 1948 and that time. As I learned more, I became increasingly horrified. And I began to speak out publicly against the policies and practices of the Israeli government and military. Al-Masry: Do you think it's important to differentiate between Israel and the Jewish people? Epstein: I'm talking about the perpetrators, and in this case they happen to be Jews. And many of them at this point are no longer Holocaust survivors, but rather their children or grandchildren. What have they learned from their families or the Jewish experience in Europe? It seems as if the persecuted--or their children or grandchildren--have become the persecutors. Is that the lesson from the Holocaust? I don't think so--at least not for me. The Jewish people were persecuted, especially in Europe, for a very long time. And that victim mentality still exists today. Israel describes itself as a victim of the peoples and the countries that surround it. They use that, and the Holocaust, to justify what they're doing. Al-Masry: Some psychologists say that victims often end up "identifying" with their oppressors. Is that the case here? Epstein: Children that have been abused sometimes grow up to become abusers themselves. All of us, regardless of our religion or ethnic background, have a seed in us that is a bad seed. We have to be aware of it. Each and every one of us is capable of doing very bad things. But we have to be aware of it and not allow that bad seed to come to the forefront, because we also have a good seed that we can allow to flourish. Some say that we as Jews have been weak, and that we now need to be strong. Well, that's great. Let's be strong. But instead of destroying Palestinian homes, let's build homes for Palestinians. Al-Masry: Are your views influenced by the Jewish faith? Epstein: I think I'm adhering to the Jewish moral code. There is a saying, "Tikun olam," or "rebuilding the world." I'm for that, but let's rebuild it for everybody -- not only for some while others suffer. Let's do this constructively. Israel is supposedly the only democracy in the region. Let's do it democratically and include all people regardless of who they are. Al-Masry: Are there other American Jews that hold views similar to yours? Epstein: There are Jewish people who say, "I agree with you, but don't mention my name." They're afraid that the same thing that happened to me will happen to them; that they'll be called self-hating Jews, anti-Semitic, etc. Our number is still small, but we're growing, especially since the horrible massacre in December and January in Gaza. I think people have been opening their eyes and seeing what Israel is really doing instead of just listening to the media, which is very biased. No child should be killed, but if an Israeli child is killed, it's big news. But if ten Palestinian children are killed, you don't hear about it. Is a Palestinian child of less value than an Israeli child? No. They both have the same right to live, but unfortunately the reality is not so. Palestinian children don't have the same rights--to education, peaceful existence, medical care or education--as Israeli children. What is happening to Israelis and Palestinians is totally out of balance. Al-Masry: What you're referring to is the principle of disproportionality, for which the Israeli military is often criticized. Epstein: Not only that. Here in the US, our government is supporting Israel and providing it with the tools and mechanisms to perpetrate these evil deeds against the Palestinian population. With our tax dollars, we're supporting that. Meanwhile, the needs here in this country are enormous. Unemployment is high -- ten percent -- while health care is in shambles. We need this money here instead of sending it to Israel. Al-Masry: How would you assess the Obama administration's current policy vis-a-vis Israel? Epstein: I'm very disappointed. When he was running for office, he spoke about 'change.' I don't see any change. He could very easily bring Israel around to changing its policies if he said "No more money" instead of constantly backing down. He says "No more settlements" and [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu smiles ear to ear and says, "Alright, for the next ten months we won't do any building." In the meantime, they're building in Jerusalem. And then they say, "East Jerusalem isn't a settlement, so we can do what we want here and destroy the homes of Palestinians every day during this ten-month period while we're not doing any settlement building." Israel has made all kinds of promises in the past -- saying one thing then doing something totally different. And we just go along with it and somehow justify it, saying that we're making progress. I don't see any progress. Obama needs some courage. He needs some backbone. Al-Masry: Can the situation improve so long as Jews and Muslims view one another as enemies? Epstein: There's a group of Israelis and Palestinians that are saying they refuse to be enemies. It was started by two men, a Palestinian and an Israeli, who have each lost a child to the conflict. That group of two people has grown. It's still small, but there are people who refuse to be enemies. Each time I was in the West Bank, I made it very clear that I was Jewish because I didn't want it to come out accidentally. Yet again and again I was told, "So what? We don't hate Jews, we hate what the Israelis and the Israeli government and military are doing to us." I've experienced hospitality from Palestinians in the West Bank -- hospitality unlike anywhere else in the world. Where did I have problems? When I was in Israel in the airport. The first time I left in 2004, I was detained at the airport for five hours and strip-searched, even internally searched. When I asked why, I was told, "Because you're a terrorist. You're a security risk." This is what the Jewish people did to me, whereas my so-called enemies, the Palestinians, offered me nothing but hospitality. Al-Masry: Is there any real hope for change? Epstein: I'm not under the illusion that if we march to the Erez checkpoint the situation will change. But every action, every little bit, helps. You never know what will be the final drop that makes the cup run over. We still have much to do. Non-violent acts of resistance by the Palestinians are growing. It's taking hold. And all of this together, sooner or later, will bring about change. I'm an inveterate optimist, but sometimes I have to be a realist.
