Expert discusses safety measures, Egyptian scientific base for program CAIRO: In light of recent announcements, a myriad of questions have arisen about the potential ramifications of a revitalized nuclear energy program in Egypt and its repercussions in terms of safety, feasibility and scientific know-how. With the original program, begun in the 1950s, stalled since the 1980s, it came as a great surprise to many when, in September, Gamal Mubarak, deputy chairman of the National Democratic Party (NDP), announced that Egypt's strategic energy needs could be met with the construction and use of several nuclear reactors. President Mubarak's visits to Russia and China two weeks ago addressed the issue of exchange of nuclear technology expertise and Egypt received pledges from both Russia and China to help Egypt build and run nuclear reactors to provide energy to an ever growing domestic consumer market. In the second installment of a two part interview, The Daily Star Egypt spoke with nuclear chemist Dr Abdel-Hakim Kandil, renowned expert in the field of nuclear energy, on his views regarding the safety of nuclear power in Egypt, the necessity of the program to meet the country's increasing energy needs, as well as the potential drawing power the program might have for Egyptian nuclear scientists who have emigrated. Kandil is a nuclear chemist who has taught at international universities including his alma mater, Florida State University, and currently teaches at Helwan University, where he helped create the Centers for Scientific Research and the Faculty of Sciences. He is director of the Center of Faculty and Leadership Development Program. He has also been a member of the Atomic Energy Agencies of Egypt and Switzerland and has won various awards and honors for his work and commitment in the field. How will Egypt deal with nuclear waste? The nuclear waste of course is a real problem. All you can do is put this spent fuel in huge water baths until it cools off. Then the question becomes what to do with it. Some countries if they give you the fuel they will take it back to reprocess. Not too many countries reprocess fuel . France does have one, the UK, the US, Russia does, but not so many countries can reprocess fuel . I think when they make a decision about what kind of reactor they will build, all these things will be on the table for discussion. Is it a political decision, and how much input has there been from scientists and engineers? Of course it is a political decision. A $3 billion capital investment - wouldn't it be a political decision? Egypt has a very good base of experts in nuclear science. We have built this experience since 1956 when we built our first reactor at Inshas and then in 1996 we had another 22 megawatts in Inshas with an Argentinean reactor. We once had a very strong nuclear program ... But then for reasons I don't really know, all the scientists . left the nuclear program. But now we are trying to re-gather, we want to come together again because there is really some hope for us that Egypt would have some nuclear program .I think we have determination to do this, all of us. You think those who've left the country would return to Egypt to aid in the nuclear program? I think they would come back. I think they will. If I were outside right now and the Egyptian government asked me to come back, I would certainly come back. I think it's something about pride for us. I think when the Iranians worked on their nuclear program there was pride for the Iranians, they said 'Oh yes, we are Iranian.' I think Egypt is the most advanced country in the African and Middle East region to work on this kind of program. Why was the nuclear program abandoned, other than Chernobyl? Probably there are other political factors for example what happened to Iraq with their reactor, Israel has destroyed this reactor ... But Israel has a nuclear program and for other than peaceful uses. Isn't it our right to have it for peaceful uses? Security is not a factor. I don't think so, with the advancement in technologies available now, everything is automated. What efforts will be made to educate the public to allay fears and dispel rumors? Networks, television, radio stations, universities, schools, and things like this - we have to start a very strong program to make people learn about the useful applications of nuclear energy. We are going to organize two programs here on Nov. 13 in the faculty of science (Helwan University) and on Nov. 20 we are going to discuss the nuclear program. The [political] parties have a very important role to play in this regard, because if you tell people what you have in energy now is X and in ten years you will need 5X, where will you get that? If you tell people that you need five times what you have now what will they do? You tell them if you don't do this we'll go back to what we were 30 years ago. Where will funding come from? The power stations in Egypt in Zafran and so on, the minister of electricity has agreements between countries. This is a very good investment; why not let the Egyptian people invest in such programs? The price of electricity from nuclear stations is much lower than that of oil and gas, approximately half; why not get the public to invest in it? What is the estimated cost and how many reactors are planned? The cost is $3 billion for one reactor. I think the plan is to build a total of four reactors. What is the predicted timeline regarding completion and intermediate steps? This program will probably take seven to eight years until operation. It could be shorter than that - Japan, for example, executed this program in four years . I think by the end of this year the decisions will be taken. Where is Egypt's "strong pool of experts coming from? When we thought about the nuclear program, we sent high school students to Russia. For example . many of my colleagues . have been to places in Europe, the Soviet Union, and the US. Many of the leading positions in the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna are Egyptian people . many of my students are working in the International Atomic Energy Agency. Once the plant is completed, how much is it going to reduce the production from fossil fuels, and therefore pollution, and how much is just to meet new demand? From 1981 till now, the consumption has been increased from 21.6 million tons to 51.7 million tons of oil. Gas from 4.2 million tons to 25 million tons . It is estimated that oil in Egypt will be gone in 15 years from now and gas in 25 years from now . There has to be a new source of power. What we need is 63,000 megawatts until 2027; what we have now is 21 megawatts. Life habits have changed. When I was a boy in the village I didn't think about electricity, television, refrigerator, hot water, nothing of this. But the people now don't think like this they want a telephone, television, a heater . It's an addition to the fossil fuels. Do you think nuclear weapons are in Egypt's future? As a nuclear scientist I would condemn any use of nuclear energy to create a means to destroy humanity. The Egyptian program is for peaceful applications only . Egypt is a country of peace; Egyptians are very peaceful. How will the transportation of materials be carried out, considering all of Egypt's transportation issues? That's why its better to have it in Al-Dabaa because you can use sea transportation . This will be agreed upon with the country we are getting fuel from. Do you envision this program being successful in Egypt? I think it will be successful, I'm sure it will be successful.
