If we were all heading in exactly the same direction the world would be a far less interesting place. So Minister of Culture Farouk Hosni tells Nigel Ryan and Amina Elbendary The most striking thing about the villa that houses the offices of Minister of Culture Farouk Hosni, from the outside at least, is that you cannot see through any of the windows. They have all been painted the same matte white as the exterior of the two storey building. Otherwise it is a perfectly ordinary Zamalek villa, with a small, well-tended, well-stocked garden, and remarkably discreet security. There is little about the place to suggest that its current occupant -- the longest serving minister of culture since the post was created -- is one of Egypt's highest profile painters. The waiting room gives little away: a small landscape by Tahia Halim, a typically ethereal Hamed Nada figure study. Studio pottery sits on the table and floor, together with a few small bronzes. There is a sculpture by Gamal Abdel-Nasser, one of his trademark psychedelic chickens, all twisted wire tail and primary coloured body, lurking behind a chair. And that, together with the shiny statuettes and equally shiny things in glass cases that comprise the essential accessories of so many years in office, is more or less that. But if the artwork in the minister's office tends towards standard government issue -- the ubiquitous pioneers, with a dash of some things more contemporary -- during his tenure at the Culture Ministry there has been an unprecedented expansion in public exhibition spaces, a flurry of new galleries opening, including show case venues such as Horizon One, attached to the Mahmoud Khalil Museum, the Palace of Arts in the Opera House Grounds, and the Gezira Arts Centre, hardly a stone's throw from Hosni's own headquarters. "I am first a painter," says Hosni, "and so it was inevitable, in a way, that I should have emphasised the fine arts sector to the same degree as, say, literature and theatre. For while there is no doubt that since the beginning of the 20th century Egypt has had a strong visual art movement, it has very often been neglected. Under the ancien regime there was patronage by one or two aristocrats. Then later, under the revolutionary regime, and during the presidency of Gamal Abdel- Nasser, with the High Dam, and all the social upheavals, there emerged an art with a clear sense of engagement. But between the end of the Nasser regime, and the beginning of President Mubarak's things had slipped, there was a degree of neglect, of set-back in the momentum." Having the spaces is all very well, but how to fill them? Is there not an untenable discrepancy in the quality of work showcased in Ministry of Culture galleries, with occasional excellent shows being punctuated by exhibitions that, with the best will in the world, should never be inflicted on the public, least of all in publicly subsidised spaces? So where are the curators? It is a problem, concedes the minister. "There is a gap in visual culture, a lack of serious judgement, and this has tended to be filled by flattery, or sycophancy. It afflicts the whole of art criticism, and the result is chaotic. "The problem is compounded because when artists who do have integrity read in the press that so and so is a marvellous artist, then they become, if anything, more reserved about exhibiting themselves. When mediocre work is promoted, and hogs all the limelight, those who do not produce mediocre work shy away from the same limelight. And journalism, it has to be said, must take much of the blame. Many journalists who write on art don't really know anything about which they are supposed to be writing. They promote their friends, or whatever they find pretty and attractive, flowers, a shimmering boat... "But in the end, as long as there is some momentum, things will move, and there will be a time when criticism actually comes to complement that movement, though this will not happen overnight. Responsive criticism requires experience, training, practice. "As far as curatorial skills are concerned, developing these is, I think, rather more of an educational than a cultural issue. On a very basic level university and school students should be more exposed to museums and galleries, they should have teachers who value such exposure. In the past, when I was a student, say, to apply to the Faculty of Fine Arts was actually a difficult process, the entry competition was tough, scary even. It was not seen as an easy option, and when a graduating class had an artist among its members it was something to be proud of. "The universities and schools obviously have an important role to play in this matter of artistic culturalisation. The Ministry of Culture can offer the material, but there has to be an audience. And where better to procure an audience than among students, because when the student learns to appreciate the visual he learns many other things, about the city, about behaviour, about choice. Visual discrimination complements an important part of the personality, and the opportunities are often missing in Egypt. We find that behaviour in Europe differs from behaviour in Egypt, it differs in the approach to the museum, to exhibitions, to the values on the streets, to the home. In a building where people live together, each tends to his own apartment. Outside the apartment is no man's land, it is not the apartment owners and so is neglected. "I say it is an educational more than a cultural problem in terms of mandate. Because one of the roles of this ministry is to build the museums, exhibitions, and to present the activity, but then there are schools with hundreds and thousands of enrolled pupils, and universities with hundreds and thousands, and the people who can bring them into the museums are the professors. And in many cases it is the teacher that needs to be educated." Among the most ambitious of the Ministry of Culture's schemes is the much publicised relocation of the Egyptian Museum -- one venue that is more likely than most to feature on the school trip itinerary. So how are the plans going? Hosni seems happy with the progress: "It's going to schedule. After the feasibility study was completed the terms of reference were distributed, with an application deadline for architects of 7 May. In four months at the latest the first results will be announced -- 2,389 architectural practices presented designs for the museum, something of a record. All the technical studies have been done, and the items to be displayed are more or less decided. God willing, once the international committee chooses the three winning designs we will begin the process of construction, which will require three and a half to four years. "The funding is partly covered by the ministry, partly by the state, and from other funds and loans. The ministry could have funded the museum completely over five years had we not been so heavily involved in restoration projects in Fatimid Cairo. This being the case, we have dedicated $100 million for the museum, and will receive additional central funding. There have been negotiations with the World Bank on fundraising, on easy term loans, and with other states that might contribute. Such inputs might be in kind, one country, for example, might be willing to donate the necessary electronic and IT equipment, another something else. We are seeking international contributions to this project, even if these are largely symbolic. But we have to start, and we have the money to start." The present Egyptian Museum, with its prime city centre site will then be freed, Hosni insists, for the display of selected items from the national collection, and for changing exhibitions. It is a policy, he says, that he would like to institute across the board, with the Islamic Museum, say, selecting items from its holdings and mounting thematically arranged temporary shows, focusing on quite specific areas. But there is, he regrets, a certain amount of institutional resistance. "There are continuous fights, and while they go on objects are just piled up, unimaginatively, without coherence, in lacklustre and depressing displays. This is our current qualitative perspective, and it is moribund. "As far as the Islamic Museum is concerned, there are plans to sub- divide the collection, so that the existing building in Bab Al-Khalq can be freed to focus on the architectural components of Islamic art. The displays there would then be complemented by a second museum, specialising in Islamic textiles, and a third which will showcase other objects, to be located at the Citadel. The Citadel would also become the home of a smaller museum that will be devoted exclusively to the display of Islamic doors. It is a necessary division, a perfectly non-controversial taxonomy, yet it appears to have provoked a great deal of outrage. Quite why there should be such objections to, say, a museum devoted entirely to Islamic ceramics is beyond me." If there is no shortage of major capital projects in the pipeline, is there any concern over the ability to maintain the results of such massive expenditure? In the past adequate maintenance has not, after all, been the ministry's strong point. (One example: the Sayed Darwish theatre contains the largest organ in Africa, unveiled to great fanfare when it was initially installed. It is now unusable, having been neglected for so long. A smaller organ was recently installed by the City of Birmingham, in the UK, at a cost of more than 30 million pounds sterling, currently more than LE200 million, which is the sum effectively lost through neglect.) Is Hosni sure that such expensive disasters can be avoided in the future? Sometimes, Hosni admits, he feels like a fire- fighter. "It is as if the ministry's job is to put out fires. We spend so much energy dousing the flames. The ministry's inheritance has been one full of problems, compounded ones, the result of a long history of negligence, an inability to programme things. The organ at the Sayed Darwish is in desperate need of maintenance, but who should put forward the necessary programme? The Sayed Darwish has lacked adequate management. We started only this year, too late, to look at the Sayed Darwish Hall, an important venue that needs restoration. But our funds are inadequate. "Egypt is not France or the US, it cannot provide that level of funding. Artistically, it is a great nation, but it does not have the resources of the developed, industrialised West. "We have started to try not to rely solely on the state but to source other possible routes for funds, to investigate horizontally. But essentially funds tend to be directed to the extinguishing of fires that, if they received no attention, might flare out of control. It is damage limitation, and other things, perforce, must wait. "There are opportunities, though, and they are not necessarily the headline grabbing projects. Smaller initiatives are just as significant, sometimes more so. I am particularly proud, for example, of Al-Hanager. The original idea did not even include a theatre, it was really a new concept that we were after, an institution that could involve people who had otherwise been by-passed. It is the philosophy that lies behind the initiative that is the most important thing. Libraries, cultural palaces, they might not seem very glamorous but they are of great significance: simple ideas can generate very important activities. And in terms of opening up, to the wider Arab world, and beyond, it is not necessarily the most costly initiatives that have the greatest pay-off. "We have tried, too, to focus not just on restoration but to then use the restored buildings, Islamic houses and palaces and the like, as venues for activities, as cultural centres. This aim directs our approach to restoration, the priorities we set in commissioning restorations, the vision that we would like to see emerge at the end of the process. Because restoration should not be static, it should be part of a momentum that develops the area around the building being restored, that has a spin-off effect in upgrading the surrounding environment and for this to be possible it is essential that the restored building continue to be used. "As early as 1989 I realised that culture was in dire need of being industrialised, of being repackaged so that it might have a wider audience, and that might involve anything from CD ROMs to opening up a historic house for performances, exhibitions, whatever." The packaging, though, can undoubtedly carry its own pitfalls, as when, several years ago, Hosni faced hostile questions in the People's Assembly over a Ministry of Culture sponsored publication the cover of which featured a misty Renoir nude. In a situation where people are more than willing to attempt to make political capital about a 19th century nude on the cover of a book, how does that begin to impact on the way the ministry views its activities? Is not this constant scratching around the edges a worry? But it does not, Hosni insists, bother him at all. "Culture is about debate and we should not shy away from debate, or from the need to elucidate, and if there is a gap in understanding we have to make things clear. The painting of a nude woman by Renoir was there, I spotted it from far as the member of parliament was waving it. And I defended it. It was not an erotic image, there was no intention on the part of the artist to arouse. Perhaps, if it had been a photograph, a nude photograph, a point could have been made, because photography elicits a more direct response. But this scratching, well, maybe we need some scratching, it awakens society a bit, and maybe this business of antithesis, of opposite points of view, creates energy. Everyone heading in exactly the same direction is not really something to be desired, especially in culture which by definition should be allowed a little naughtiness." But is there a danger, perhaps, of not creating energy, but dissipating it? The minister is adamant. "In anything there must be calculated waste, as long as it doesn't deny the positives, then never mind, no problem." Soundbites Farouk Hosni... * on the summer book fair: "There's a confusion. There will be a book market at the Citadel, not a book fair, a market. It will include fine arts, a book fair, it is managed by the Cultural Fund, the GEBO, the Organisation for Cultural Palaces, and all those concerned, and the Publishers Union." * on rumours that the Film Festival is to be moved to Sharm El-Sheikh? "It will not be moved. It will only have an arm in Sharm El-Sheikh. Films that are screened here in Cairo will be screened there, what's wrong with that? Are they misers or what? They don't want to give anyone else anything? It's very strange. This might increase income. One can't understand this. We seem to be against anyone who thinks of a new idea. It's an idea on the table and we'll try it out. We'll experiment." * on whether all energy will now be concentrated on the New Egyptian Museum? "No, we have more than one museum. We have the Civilisation Museum in Fustat, built on 20 feddans, Museum of Aton in Minya, the Luxor Museum and a number of regional museums we're working on. In addition the Mohamed Abdel-Wahab Museum and the Arabic Music Centre is opening, and then Bayt Al-Umma."
